us v the Abbey for £7,500

[ohoh4312]

Hi Termi

New bank account has been up and running since Jan this year, so shAbbey account not being used, apart from small payments to reduce the overdraft.

I fully admit that I have not paid as much as I should have done, but there is just not enough to go around anymore.

So now they will keep throwing charges at the account, and I will never be able to pay it off.

Jo

[deedee1310]

OMG Jo - how've you been?

Co-op have just done the same to me. I wrote back telling them that the balance was made up of charges and that I could only afford to pay £50 (and that's pushing) it.

I'm still waiting to hear back from as I only wrote to them via secure message, yesterday.

I would call them and make a payment arrangement of something you can afford each month. Tell them that defaulting you whilst the account is in dispute will not get the balance paid off any quicker.

Hope you can get it resolved soon.

deedee x

[adamc6671]

Hi Jo

If it helps, the claim I've got running against Abbey (Tish vs Abbey) follows a very similar path to yours.

To cut a long story short, ultimately Abbey transferred Tish's debt to a 3rd party agency who were actually very good at agreeing and managing repayments with Tish. They were quite happy to agree payments that Tish could actually afford, and which were considerably less than Abbey had been demanding. The debt is actually paid off now, but is of course still subject to the on-going Court saga.

The point is, Jo, that if Abbey did the same thing with your 'debt', I would assume they would use the same agency (which is actually owned by them I think), and things would in all probability not be as bad as you envisage.

Hope that helps, Jo

All the best - Adam.

[GaryH]

Originally Posted by ohoh4312

Hello all

LONG long time no speak, so hope you are all well.

Erm...................... .

I am uber-peed off actually and need some advice - but hey whats new??!!

shAbbey have cancelled my overdraft and sent me a default notice, demanding that the full balance is paid within 7 days. Obviously I cannot pay it in full, ( I could have if the whole Test Case fiasco hadn't happenned), so I really don't know what to do, apart from waiting for the baliffs to knock at the door!

Excuse me for being a bit thick here (!) but do I have any options open to me? The only way I could pay it would be to not pay the mortgage this month, or eat, but I don't suppose that would bother them.

Any advice, as always, would be greatly appreciated.

Best regards

Jo xx

Hey Jo!

Is the overdraft made up entirely or mainly of disputed charges? If so they shouldn't be attempting to enforce it.

You should write to them pointing out that the debt is in dispute and as such all enforcment action should be suspended. There's 3 things you can refer to in the letter to support your case:

1) The judgment in the case of Carlisle v Clydesdale (attached) in which a high court judge expressed the view that stays should only remain in place for so long as enforcment action is not pursued in respect of disputed charges. Enclose a copy of the judgment with the letter and highlight paragraphs 11 and 12.

2) The FSA waiver. As you probably know, there is an exemption to the waiver where financial hardship is involved. If the enforcement of what is a disputed debt leaves you with a straight choice between paying it and paying the mortgage, this is undeniably a case of financial hardship. Threaten to complain to the FSA and copy them in on your letter.

3) The Banking Code. Refer to paragraph 13.5, which states that adverse data should not be passed to credit reference agencies where the debt is in dispute. In other words, they should not be defaulting you over a disputed debt.

Incidentally, don't worry about bailiffs knocking - they'd have to get a county court judgment before they can do that, and they won't get one of those because if they file a claim you could apply for, and would get, a stay.

Good luck!

[GaryH]

Sorry, forgot to attach the judgment!

[ohoh4312]

Hi all

How remiss of me - thank you all for your advice, especially garyh. I have been up to my eyes in stuff (debt, mainly) and forgot to post back to say thanks.

So I wrote to them using the points above - I didnt offer to pay anything, just said that there was no way I could pay it in full immediately, as they were demanding.

No reply, then last week I get a letter from drms, their in-house dca, again demanding the full amount in 7 days or else! Lovely people aren't they.

So I have told them the same thing, account in dispute, financial hardship etc etc, and am awaiting a reply.

I have also written to mr coyle requesting a payment under hardship grounds - that way they will get the whole bloody lot back and get off my case. But not holding my breath on that one!

I am so worn out with worry and stress, if they wanted to make me br I wouldn't argue.

Jo xx

[cleo4patra]

Originally Posted by GaryH

Sorry, forgot to attach the judgment!

Gosh - this is very helpful for me at the moment. Thank you . I am finding myself in that position

sorry - don't want to hi-jack.

[ohoh4312]

Hey Hun - not a hijack if it helps you.

No worries ok?

Jo xx

[ohoh4312]

Humph!

Threatening letter received today from dmrs - this letter requires your urgent attention, the sum shown must be paid immediately etc etc etc

Even though I have PoD for the letter I sent them - do they think I am that stupid?!

"This matter will not go away so please do not ignore this letter."

What, like they ignored mine??!!

The best bit is at the bottom where it lists what could happen if this matter was referred to an external recovery agent:

"A charging order against your property" - that would be great cos then they would get diddly squat as I practically owe more than it's worth!!

Where to now folks?

[ohoh4312]

FFS

Sorry, truly sorry, but I have just noticed a very important point:

The letter is dated 13 November 2008

Today is the 20th.

Exactly 7 days from date of writing to date of receipt.

They really know how to try and screw you, don't they?

Spitting feathers here - cos the next thing will be "you failed to respond" etc etc - well screw you shabbey; I am filing for bankruptcy and you won't get a penny if I have anything to do with it.

[cleo4patra]

Originally Posted by GaryH

Sorry, forgot to attach the judgment!

This will be useful for me thank you. I will quote the case if necessary - however my claim has not got as far as court yet - am waiting for final response before going to the FOS

[ohoh4312]

Update (of sorts):

dmrs - not heard a peep from them since their last lovely missive, but as it takes them a week to write and send a letter, I should be due one next week I guess. I have the PoD for my account in dispute letter, signed for on 14 November, so we shall see what response, if any, I get.

Mr coyle at Triton House - well.............my hardship letter to him was sent the same day as the one to dmrs, recorded delivery also. But it has NOT been delivered - according to Royal Mail it has either been, quote, "refused (!!) or lost." But also, "an item is not officially considered lost or otherwise undelivered until 15 working days have elapsed from the date of posting."

Bloody ridiculous (sorry peeps.)

So, do I resend it by special dely, as advised by the PO - it can still be refused by the recipient though, or what?

Any ideas folks please?

[ohoh4312]

GRRRRRRR!!!!!!!

Letter from dmrs today, headed "PLEASE DO NOT IGNORE THIS LETTER."

I have composed a letter in response, but would really like some help/advice/guidance on this - pleeeease!

This is what I was going to send:

I write in response to your letter of 24/11/08, (received 29/11/0, referenced above.

I am most perturbed to find that your letter opens with the demand “PLEASE DO NOT IGNORE THIS LETTER.” I am NOT ignoring it, nor did I ignore your previous letter of 03/11/08. I did not respond to your further letter of 13/11/08 however (not received by me until 20/11/0, as I thought you would have responded to MY letter in the meantime.

In fact I wrote to you on the 9th November 2008, and sent the letter by Recorded Delivery. I have Proof of Delivery that says the letter was received and signed for at your offices on 14th November 2008.

So, you seem to be ignoring this fact, and the contents of said letter, which I find wholly unprofessional and downright rude.

I will reiterate that this account is IN DISPUTE – I have a stayed Court Claim against Abbey National for over £6,000 in charges, plus interest, and if you can be bothered to read my previous letter then you will see that I have explained why you should not be taking action against me.

This letter will be sent by Special Delivery, guaranteed for delivery before 1pm on Tuesday 2nd December, and I will receive a copy of the receiving party’s signature, therefore I would be grateful if you would refrain from insulting my intelligence any further by ignoring it or claiming not to have received it.

Should you decide to continue to ignore me, then I will have no option but to make a formal complaint to the FSA and the FOS.

I look forward to a reply, as opposed to yet another demand for payment, by return.

Any thoughts? Anything I should add - or take out?

Help greatly appreciated, and desperately needed please.

[ohoh4312]

Anyone???

[phoenix11]

I don't know - but should you not be also writing to the Abbey itself as well as copying in the FSA - just going on what Gary posted back in October.

Essentially, that if they are now pursuing enforcement action, you will return to the courts to ask for the stay to be removed in accordance with the judgment in the case of Carlisle v Clydesdale?

Hope you get an answer soon - I'm rather hoping someone will be able to answer my queries to because too much of this worrying and hassle just wears you down.

Guess it's what the banks hope will happen.

[ohoh4312]

Thanks phoenix - sent the letter, and have stated that I will apply to have stay lifted if they continue to enforce etc etc

Good point about writing to shabbey themselves - they shouldn't have passed the debt over for enforcement, so I am on the case and doing that letter.

Will drop by on your thread in a mo, but don't know if I can help.

I posted this in the RBS forum this morning, and don't want to get told off for posting threads all over the place but it MAY be some good news, providing all the banks involved follow the same route:

BBC NEWS | Business | Bank plans for overdraft refunds

Here's hoping!!