court date tomorrow (26th Oct)

[cheesy]

Finally the date has come round and I'm in court tomorrow.

I've submitted my court bundle and am rehearsing my arguments and preparing to object for a stay as advised.

Couple of quick questions (nerves are setting in)

1) I've heard nothing from Abbey since the summer. Should they have sent me a court bundle?
2) Are they likely to be sending a barrister tomorrow?
3) What happens if no one turns up from their side?
4) Is the focus of the hearing now likely to be that Abbey will apply for a stay on the day?
5) Do I have to submit an order objecting to a stay (which hasn't yet been issued) or just write down my formal objections?

Any help gratefully appreciated.

I've been putting in time familiarising myself with the arguments but I feel less sure about this stay business.

Thanks, Cheese

[Lula]

Hi, right ring the court and see if they have submitted a court bundle, if they havnt then they are in breach of a court order and you should win by default, however, Abbey may send a barrister to ask for a stay. If they wanted a stay then they should have put in an application a while ago, but they try and brazen it out on the day which is very naughty IMO. Read up on why you would argue against a stay and take all the paperwork with you, plus a few copies.

You have done really well so far, just the final it now, what court is it?

[psm]

Hi Good luck for tomoz. From what I have read the Abbey never submit a CB send a local solicitor on the day to apply for a stay and are invaribaly granted it. The local District Judges are under instructions to stay all cases relating to the OFT case unless there compelling reasons not to such as severe hardship. I read a post last night where no one from the Abbey turned up and the DJ still stayed the case. I was lucky and only had part of the case stayed, but that is another story based on the Abbey's "breach of contact" defence. Whatever happens go prepared for the case to be heard, where you can try to refer to your bundle (the Abbey rep will not have a copy, and it will show up the presumptiousness of the Abbey) Unfortunately the Abbey are well versed in counter argueing the objections to a stay and seem to be able to do no wrong in the eyes of our court system. Sorry to sound negative but I thought it better for you to know the worse case scenario so there are no surprises, it is nerve wracking enough as it is. The very best of luck again and let us know how you get on.

[cheesy]

thanks both.

It is the Bow County Court in Stratford (East London). I'll take the advice of finding out in advance if they submitted a CB (I don'tthink they have) and I'll argue as persuasively as I can. I appreciate knowing the worst case scenario and that the odds seem to be stacked up against us.

I'll let you know how I get on.

[Lula]

You will be fine cheesy, but next time, dont leave it till the day before eh? because if you had said a week or so ago, there is a letter that you could have send to Abbey and the courts, which is really good and has had vey good results in the past, although in reality, this is all very academic now as nearly all cases are being stayed

[cheesy]

yes you are right of course. More time always helps but last week I was preparing for a job interview. My small brain only copes with one task at a time. Need to organise self better!

[Lula]

LOL, I take it you are a bloke then Still, as i said, it is all academic because the likihood is that it will be stayed, but, you can ask that as a condition of the stay, the bank are not permitted to pile on anymore charges as a result of this action, if you have an o/d that is still incurring interest, what I mean it, if you have any failed d/d or cheques then they are allowed to charge BUT no more charges from a debt relating to the charges in question

[chelseaboy]

Hi Cheese, Regarding the court tomorrow, from what I have read alot of people (understadably) get intimidated, I think the trick is, Don't be, alot of people are coming back and saying they got me with this and that and the judge agreed with my case but said "I'm still going to stay it". if your brave enough, ask him/her why, and try your best to get a strate forward answer. I never needed to but believe me, I'm quite brash and would have argued the case because i'm pi$$ed off with the whole saga (dodgy deals with the banks, OFT & Courts ect). read the following post to get an idea of what I mean..........
I got it!!!!!!! When the Abbey numpty tries to refer to the OFT case i'll point out that isn't this hearing because you've not adheared to the Judges orders & therefore you have been struck out for NON-Compliance and this hearing is to hear your reasons Why you didn't comply? That if you wanted to apply for a stay on the grounds of the OFT case you had ample time to do that within the Judges guidelines/orders, If the tables were reversed would the Judge be as leinient with me? We know the answer to that because I WAS struck out, only to be re-instated because it was a clerical error by the court & not myself, If you've not replied to the orders due to your incompetance then tough, you should get the same treatment as me, infact, the Judge must be SEEN to be fair to both parties, therefore he has no option to award the case DUE TO NON-COMPLIANCE!!!!!!!!!!! As Elvis said...... "Thank you very much"
As you can see, rather brash, but it's a different approach, and at the minute, being a reasonable puppy isn't working, it might be worth a try...All i'm doing is giving you another angle to try, good luck, I hope it goes well whatever way you see fit....... Keep smiling, Chels.....

[chelseaboy]

Any news Cheese?

[Lula]

I think if it was good news he would have come back and told us

[cheesy]

sorry for not getting back sooner, wanted to forget about it all for a while.

It was stayed. Didn't feel the judge even listened to me - felt like a done deal from the start. The court had a typed sheet about the current postion and have draft order already prepared although the Judge said she'd listen.

Abbey's arguments seem to be that a stay will alleviate strain in the system which is clogged up with cases (surely settling cases before court would achieve this?); the law is too complicated for the county court; the test case is being heard in the new year and will be expediated; and waiting for the outcome of the test case will provide clarity and consistency which is currently lacking.

I argued that my case is about breach of contract not UTCCR and I'll drop the UTCCR part but this seemed completely to pass the judge by in her summing up. Also complained about Abbey's conduct and there non-compliance, the indeterminate length of a stay etc...

Judge said that Abbey don't have my papers so we can't proceed in any case. I produced a signature from the person who signed for the bundle, but was then told "ah, yes but there isn't time to hear it today anyway. 15 minutes wouldn't be long enough." As if that is my fault!!!

It's a joke if you ask me. Lost all faith in the system.

Is it worth appealing for the stay to be lifted? If it is, should I amend my witness statement and send in a new bundle getting rid of all reference to UTCCR? As I say, the judge was dismissive of what I said in court so don't know if I'll just be throwing away good money after bad. Should we all be looking at our bundles in this way?

[Lula]

Hi, and I am sorry that it was such a let down, I think that it would be a waste of time appealing the stay unless you can prove severe financial hardship, in the meantime, just think of the interest that will mount up

[chelseaboy]

Sorry to hear it Cheese, & I have to agree with you that the system is a joke & your hearing was irrelevant in that the decision was already made. The bit that annoys me and most other people is that if this is the case, get rid of all the bollox of a hearing and just send a letter out stating the fact! If the decision has already been made to stay the case, just say so and get rid of all the crap, they say it's clogging up the system and then they carry on with these pointless hearings anyway! I mean Logic & lack of come to mind... it's exactly why I posted what I did about being quite blunt...... Anyway back to the point, I'm afraid i'd have to agree with Lula and an appeal would be worthless... chels...

[psm]

sorry to hear about your ordeal at the hands of our two tier justice system. It is about time the government paid more attention to the erosion of the rights of its own citizens and less time posturing in europe. They seem to think we are all morons who will accept what we are told, however this is a mighty big worm they are dealing with and when it turns they had better watch out.

[ICY]

Not good news, but look at it the other way, it is earning you more interest the longer it takes to get to court

[cheesy]

Yes, I'll try and think of the interest and hope that justice wins out in the end. It's insane the money that banks must be spending paying out for barristers to attend these hearings. Why not just settle?

Obviously they have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo and I am losing faith that the OFT has the teeth to really challenge this at the test case.

But that's enough negativity for one day. Thanks to everyone for the ongoing support and advice, and it is good to read the few threads where people have been successful. I can't legitimately claim hardship, noot in the sense that some people have been struggling, so I shall have to wait. Grrr. Good luck everyone else - we mustn't back down.

[Lula]

I totally Agree cheesy, but at least we are putting up a fight eh?