Abbey Court Hearings - Important info

[GaryH]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...tml#post553523

Take the stay objections stuff to, as per and linked from the guide in post #1 of this thread.

[cassoli]

Originally Posted by GaryH

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...tml#post553523

Take the stay objections stuff to, as per and linked from the guide in post #1 of this thread.

.

Hi Gary,
I was in court today and it went something like this........

Went in, along with barrister from Abbey.
District Judge Freeman opened by stating the claim will be stayed until the outcome of the test case and did i understand.
When I offered an objection using the arguments from links you suggested he dismissed them out of hand, saying all cases in this area were stayed. I then asked if i could appeal against this decision. He said i could, but as district judge it was his decision to stay all cases.
At this point i think i was begining to annoy him. He then said five minitues were allocated to this hearing, and time was up.

I'm not sure why he bothered to have a directions hearing if his mind was already made up. In fact, at the request of the abbey barrister he let her copy the template draft order he was holding.she also kindly copied one for me too,the judge had wrote mine and abbey's name in biro. Talk about made his mind up......

Not sure what i want to do now, think i will take a couple of days to digest it, this has been going on since Febuary and think i'm begining to run out of steam, although a good rant is making me feel better.

Once again, thanks for all the help and advice you have given along the way

[adamc6671]

Hi cassoli

I've great sympathy with you. The TOTAL lack of consistency within our judicial system is making a mockery of what is, supposedly, the best system in the world!

At the end of the day, though, there's virtually nothing we can do except make our feelings known. My own opinion is that, eventually, the OFT & the banks will reach some sort of compromise, without an actual test case, which will leave us all more or less where we are now, the Court system equally clogged up, and our Judges equally free to go off in their own seperate directions!

Just wish there was more we could do.

All the best - Adam.

[A-dust]

I completely sympathise will Cassoli as I experienced a similar outcome. Abbey's solicitor arrived completely ill prepared. She wasn't aware that Abbey were to have submitted an argument in response to my bundle, and even asked if she could have a look at my last letter from the court as she didn't believe the hearing had been allocated an hour! (I politely refused but read the main points to her ) she ran into the bathroom phone in hand and came out reading a document on how to handle the hearing...I snuck a look and could see it mentioned requesting a stay and offering the claimant expenses for that day as a gesture of goodwill. It also said that the chances of having to settle in this hearing will be very small..The district Judge was rude to myself and my mother beyond belief! He asked Abbey's solicitor whether she'd like a stay and complained about the size of my bundle being too big (he didn't actually read it as the packaging was just about off it and in my allocation hearing he told me to arrive prepared..er, hello?!)) when asking if I objected, I tried to explain that I did and that some courts are dealing with claims on a case by case basis. My mum asked if she could say something to which he replied 'Frankly no, you can't' He basically told me I was lying! My mum then tried to explain how insignificant the amount I'm claiming is to Abbey etc..but the Judge said that I'd had charges from as far back a 2000 so money isn't the issue as I'd waited until this year to begin my claim. He point blank refused to let me argue my point as per my appeal against the stay (I had my document ready) and told me to kindly take back the court bundle I'd sent him and await his letter!

Does anyone know if it's possible to request a different Judge/Court? and also whether I am able to file a complaint against the Judge and his conduct? Otherwise I don't stand a hope in hell if I'm to be seen by him next time, and with there only being 2 judges at my court it's highly likely....all my hard work just feels completely in vain and I'm livid/disheartened beyond belief now

Any comments would be greatly appreciated!

[lucyk]

Hi everyone.. full sympathy to cassoli n a dust.. it doesnt sound too promising.. i am in court tuesday.. to try and get the stay lifted.

I like to think of myself as fairly intelligent.. but to be honest this is driving me nuts...

as I am applying for the stay to be removed.. do I still need 3 bundles?

advice would be gratefully received - like most on here I am trying to run a house.. feed/clothe my kids... pay rent... work... - I have been battling over this for a yr now n stubbornly refuse to let it drop..but feeling a little out of my depth

any help???? please

[cassoli]

Hi Lucyk,
Good luck in court. Hope my tale of woe doesn't dent your confidence, I think i just had an inept judge,. Yours has to be better.
good luck and best wishes
Cassoli

[overflow]

HI A-Dust

OMG My heart goes out to you and your mother. What a fine example of British Justice (NOT).
How rude of him to speak to your mother like that. It seems to me that the Big Wigs dont care a toss if we are the ones out f pocket , I wonder how they would feel if the boot were on the other foot so to speak.

I dont think the powers that be like the idea of ordinary Joe Public having any say whatsoever, here we are putting our time and effort into trying to claim back what is rightfully ours and it seems there are obstacles put in our way round every corner.

What gives these Judges the right to speak and treat us as though we are second hand citizens, under all the pomp they are just the same as us, they eat ,sleep and go to the loo just like we do so who the hell do they think they are dismissing us out of hand like that.
It makes my blood boil to think that we are trying to get Justice for the wrong doings of the banks and yet the very people who should be meteing out this said "great british justice " are the ones slapping us down at every point.

There should be some sort of body were as you could go and complain about his attitude toward yourself and your mother.
You have my heartfelt sympathy.

Regards

[determindator]

Hello A-Dust,

There is a complaint procedure. You can look on the HMCS web site or visit your nearest Court to get the info. There is a leaflet if you go to a Court.

[A-dust]

Thank you Overflow and Determindator

It's so nice to have this site to speak to others who are in the the same or a similar situation...I probably would have spontaneously combusted by now if it weren't for you all. As we speak my mum still has smoke bellowing from each ear! and I'm chomping at the bit for the letter from the court so that I can appeal against the stay at yet more expense to myself!

Better luck to everyone else and stay positive...the swines'll get theres!!

[determindator]

I have requested a removal of a stay by letter only. Go to GaryH templates Application for a removal of a stay.

There is an interesting piece by CRFX250 in thread Office of Fair Trading Test Case post num 1127 if you haven't seen it yet.

[determindator]

Hi again,

PSM v Abbey is another thread which is good to read and also look at thread OFT Test Case Poc's (put into search) and look at Bill65 posts from number 8.
It's the foundations of law very interesting.

[abroadgirl]

update
Bank Charges Court Date Announced: 14 Jan. Plus clarity over credit card reclaiming?
hugs
abg

[jmc5571]

Re Magnum:

Hi This is probably too long ago now, but are you not best to accept the 65% settlement as part payment and continue to seek the rest as you go. Abbey seem reluctant to pay anything at the moment. At least then you've got something so far. Not sure if this is possible or advisable, but just a thought

[cassoli]

Originally Posted by jmc5571

Re Magnum:

Hi This is probably too long ago now, but are you not best to accept the 65% settlement as part payment and continue to seek the rest as you go. Abbey seem reluctant to pay anything at the moment. At least then you've got something so far. Not sure if this is possible or advisable, but just a thought

Hi,
Does anyone know if the 65% offer from Abbey is an open offer. Are hey still paying out
Can you accept he offer even if you have refused in the past. I'm thinking 65% now may be better than waiting for the outcome of the test case.

Cheers Cassoli

[GaryH]

If the offer stated a time limit then it stays open until the time is up - unless they've told you they are withdrawing it sooner. If you've already expressly refused the offer then strictly speaking its no longer open, although they may still allow you to accept if its within the time.

[macushlamoon]

Hi Gary

I'm due in court on the 12 October, to ask that the stay imposed be lifted due to financial hardship, the court is in reciept of everything to this point, and are now asking for 'skeletal info' as to our case against the stay.

I am doing this on behalf of my father-in-law, a pensioner, who in May had a heart attack. I have armed myself with all his financial info, ie only has pension going into this account, majority of which gets swollowed by bank charges.
Do i have to include his wife's pension in with his, as in household income or can i argue his financial affairs seperately, the account in dispute is solely in his name.

[GaryH]

No you don't have to include his wifes financial information.

Have you seen this -
http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...y-hearing.html

and this -
http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...y-grounds.html

[macushlamoon]

Gary

thanx for your prompt reply, I am getting together bundle for stay hearing as we speak
And have downloaded application for removal of stay on grounds of hardship

Thanks for your help

[determindator]

Hello Gary,

If a claimant accepts the 65% offered can you keep the claim you have already going, active to claim the interest? Abbey say the 65% is in full and final settlement but surely that cannot affect your statutory rights?

Thanks again.

[GaryH]

If a claimant accepts the 65% offered can you keep the claim you have already going, active to claim the interest?

No.

They've made you an offer of x amount in return for you discontinuing your action. You are completely free to either refuse or accept the offer or make a counter-offer, that is your perogotive, but if you do accept you are entering into a binding contract - so as long as they perform their obligation (to pay £x) you then must perform yours (to drop the action). Failiure to do so is a breach on your part which they would be entitled to pursue you for. In practise I think all they would do is show the judge that you accepted the offer and your claim would certainly be thrown out.

Even aside from that, you have no statutory right to the return of the charges nor to interest on top. You are alleging the charges are unlawful (which they clearly are) but strictly speaking unfortunately they are lawful until a court rules them otherwise. Interest is not a statutory right either - its at the discretion of the court.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.